Tuesday, April 7, 2009

The Major Heresies (Revisited)

The Major Heresies of the Novus Ordo Sect, as Taught by the Apostate Second Vatican Council
Contributed By: John P. Anthony
with some modification

With even more clarification (Provided in Red)


The Novus Ordo sect officially teaches religious liberty.

Antipope Giovanni “Paul VI” Montini, Second Vatican Council, Dignitatis Humanae, 1965: “This Vatican Council declares that everyone has the right to religious LIBERTY…The council further declares that the right to religious freedom has its foundation in the very dignity of the human person as this dignity is known through the revealed word of God and by reason itself.”


I have bolded, capitalized, and underlined the word liberty because this has been changed from the original. Most likely in an attempt to prove a point. You will find this quote no where else on the internet with the word liberty.

*****(Note: At this point, the source article has been changed since I brought this to the attention of the source. The Author has recognized his error on this part, and revised the word Liberty to Freedom.) *****


The quote in it's entirety...

This Vatican Council declares that the human person has a right to religious freedom. This freedom means that all men are to be immune from coercion on the part of individuals or of social groups and of any human power, in such wise that no one is to be forced to act in a manner contrary to his own beliefs, whether privately or publicly, whether alone or in association with others, within due limits.

The council further declares that the right to religious freedom has its foundation in the very dignity of the human person as this dignity is known through the revealed word of God and by reason itself.(2)

2. Cf. John XXIII, encycL "Pacem in Terris", April 11, 1963: AAS 55 (1963), pp. 260-261; Pius XII, radio message, Dec. 24, 1942: AAS 35 (1943), p. 19; Pius XI, encycl. "Mit Brennender Sorge", March 14, 1937: AAS 29 (1937), p. 160; Leo XIII, encycl. "Libertas Praestantissimum", June 20, 1888: Acts of Leo XIII 8 (1888), p. 237-238.

Here, Vatican II clearly explains what it means by religious freedom, which in no way contradicts that which has been taught by the Catholic Church. Let's examine the quotes provided

The Catholic Church condemns religious liberty.

False. No where will you find a quote stating such. You will find quotes which 'seemingly' prove it, but only when taken out of context and applied to a scenario they were never meant to be applied to.

According to Syllabus Errorum, the Catholic Church condemns INDIFFERENTISM (indifferentism is a condemned heresy that holds that one religion is as good as another, and that all religions are equally valid paths to salvation.), and LATITUDINARIANISM (the belief that, while Christianity generally is superior to other faiths, it makes no difference which of the several Christian denominations the believer chooses to join. Catholicism condemns Protestantism specifically for this sort of indifferentism, noting that many Protestant denominations do not claim that they exclusively possess the truth of the Christian gospel, and that various forms of worship may be equally pleasing to God: a latitudinarian position.)

Pope Pius IX, Syllabus Errorum, 1864: “Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true.” -- CONDEMNED

Pope Leo XIII in Immortale Dei (November 1, 1885) taught:

“The Church is wont to take earnest heed that no one shall be forced to embrace the Catholic Faith against his will, for, as St. Augustine wisely reminds us, ‘Man cannot believe otherwise than of his own free will.’

Let us reconcile this encyclical with Syllabus Errorum.

Again, unless Leo was heretical in this Encyclical, we can see the continuous teaching of the catholic church, man does not have the right in a 'spiritual' sense to choose a faith contrary to Catholicism, however, man does have the right to choose, in a 'physical' sense, what he is to believe.

Pope Pius IX, Syllabus Errorum, 1864: “In the present day it is no longer expedient that the Catholic religion should be held as the only religion of the State, to the exclusion of all other forms of worship.” -- CONDEMNED

This in no way applies to religious liberty whatsoever. Is it expedient (suitable) that the catholic religion should be held as the only religion? Certainly! It alone contains the full truth! Is it possible? Only if the state is not forced to do so, as 'Man cannot believe otherwise than of his own free will."

In Etsi Multa, state and church are clearly distinguished as separate entities. Pius wrote...

"...Nevertheless the faith teaches and human reason demonstrates that there is a twofold order of things. Two kinds of powers must be distinguished on earth-one natural that looks to the tranquility and secular business of human society; the other, whose origin is above nature, which is in charge of the Church of Christ, divinely instituted for the salvation and peace of souls."

Pope Pius IX, Syllabus Errorum, 1864: “The Church ought to be separated from the State, and the State from the Church.” -- CONDEMNED

Again, not condemned because the State and the Church should be a singular unit, but the state should rely on the Church for her social teaching and truth. For, how would the state know what Truth is, without the Church, where all truth is given from?

Pope Gregory XVI, Mirari Vos, 1832: "This shameful font of indifferentism gives rise to that absurd and erroneous proposition which claims that liberty of conscience must be maintained for everyone."

Comment Provided by http://the-hermeneutic-of-continuity.blogspot.com/2009/02/hermeneutic-of-continuity-and-freedom.html

So how can we reconcile such coercion with Vatican II? Clearly we must read Vatican II in the light of tradition, interpret it in accord with the constant teaching of the Church: we must apply the "hermeneutic of continuity."

In fact, we can find some hints even in Dignitatis Humanae itself to support such a reading. Earlier on, the Declaration affirmed that:

On their part, all men are bound to seek the truth, especially in what concerns God and His Church, and to embrace the truth they come to know, and to hold fast to it. (n.1)

This principle is prior to the principle of freedom of conscience. A further restraint on liberty of conscience is provided by the test of "public order." Speaking of religious freedom (although the principle also applies to freedom of conscience) Dignitatis Humanae says that a person should have immunity from coercion but adds an important proviso:

In consequence, the right to this immunity continues to exist even in those who do not live up to their obligation of seeking the truth and adhering to it and the exercise of this right is not to be impeded, provided that just public order be observed. (n.2 - my empahsis)

In some states, denial of the holocaust is a criminal offence - the state intervenes for the sake of the public order to prevent the encouragement of neo-nazism. Such states recognise that liberty of conscience has its limits. Most people also think that the truth about the holocaust is an important matter - whether or not holocaust denial is punishable in civil law. As far as the holocaust is concerned, "error has no rights" and the world concords with Blessed Pope Pius IX in seeing the absolute liberty of conscience as an insanity.

Indeed the world's press agrees with Pope Gregory XVI in being horrified at the "monstrous doctrines and prodigious errors" that are proclaimed when the liberty of conscience is unrestrained by the obligation of seeking the truth and the duty to preserve public order and recognises that the idea that liberty of conscience should be proclaimed for everyone is "an absurd and erroneous proposition."

The media furore over Bishop Williamson thus neatly demonstrates that it is perfectly reasonable to interpret Dignitatis Humanae in the light of Mirari Vos and Quanta Cura.

Pope Pius VII, Post Tam Diuturnas, 1814: “But a much more grave, and indeed very bitter, sorrow increased in Our heart - a sorrow by which We confess that We were crushed, overwhelmed and torn in two - from the twenty-second article of the constitution in which We saw, not only that "liberty of religion and of conscience" (to use the same words found in the article) were permitted by the force of the constitution, but also that assistance and patronage were promised both to this liberty and also to the ministers of these different forms of "religion". There is certainly no need of many words, in addressing you, to make you fully recognize by how lethal a wound the Catholic religion in France is struck by this article. For when the liberty of all "religions" is indiscriminately asserted, by this very fact truth is confounded with error and the holy and immaculate Spouse of Christ, the Church, outside of which there can be no salvation, is set on a par with the sects of heretics and with Judaic perfidy itself. For when favour and patronage is promised even to the sects of heretics and their ministers, not only their persons, but also their very errors, are tolerated and fostered: a system of errors in which is contained that fatal and never sufficiently to be deplored heresy which, as St. Augustine says (de Haeresibus, no.72), "asserts that all heretics proceed correctly and tell the truth: which is so absurd that it seems incredible to me."”

What is the wound struck by this article? It is not "liberty of religion and of conscience", but rather "For when the liberty of all "religions" is indiscriminately asserted, by this very fact truth is confounded with error and the holy and immaculate Spouse of Christ, the Church, outside of which there can be no salvation, is set on a par with the sects of heretics and with Judaic perfidy itself. For when favour and patronage is promised even to the sects of heretics and their ministers, not only their persons, but also their very errors, are tolerated and fostered: a system of errors in which is contained that fatal and never sufficiently to be deplored heresy which, as St. Augustine says (de Haeresibus, no.72), "asserts that all heretics proceed correctly and tell the truth: which is so absurd that it seems incredible to me."

The error is not liberty of religion and of conscience. The error is that all religions are on par with Catholicism. Again, the error is indifferentism.

The Novus Ordo sect officially teaches collegiality.

Antipope Giovanni “Paul VI” Montini, Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, 1964: “The order of bishops, which succeeds to the college of apostles and gives this apostolic body continued existence, is also the subject of supreme and full power over the universal Church, provided we understand this body together with its head the Roman Pontiff and never without this head.”

Key part left out. Just prior to the quote provided, we read...

"But the college or body of bishops has no authority unless it is understood together with the Roman Pontiff, the successor of Peter as its head. The pope's power of primacy over all, both pastors and faithful, remains whole and intact. In virtue of his office, that is as Vicar of Christ and pastor of the whole Church, the Roman Pontiff has full, supreme and universal power over the Church. And he is always free to exercise this power."

Vatican II does not teach collegiality, as is clearly demonstrated above. There is no need to address the proof provided, as Lumen Gentium clearly shows on it's own it is no official teaching on collegiality.


(To Be Continued)

14 comments:

  1. You're an apostate and an abomination in the eyes of the True Catholic God. You are making Satan's job a lot easier!

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  2. Thanks for visiting and leaving your judgment!

    "But sanctify the Lord Christ in your hearts, being ready always to satisfy every one that asketh you a reason of that hope which is in you."

    May God lead you and bless you!

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  3. The fact that you have just asked God to bless a man who, in your eyes, must be at least schismatic, proves you have no faith whatsoever.

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  4. Do the Mohammedans worship Jesus? Let's see how you answer that one! Heretic! Apostate! How can you call yourself a Christian? Blind, blind, blind.....following your blind guides into the pit. either a liar or a fool

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  5. Welcome back Pat,

    Your schismatic? Calling me an apostate and abomination doesn't make you schismatic! It could make you many things, but not necessarily schismatic!

    Additionally, if I did think you are schismatic, which I suppose I could assume now, my prayer that God lead you and bless you is a prayer that you would respond to our Lord's grace, and be brought back into his church.

    I would say it proves my faith so much more, that I would believe our sovereign Lord could bring back even the furthest gone of his sons.

    So again, may God bless you Pat, and lead you to his church.

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  6. Morning Anonymous,

    Thank you for your visit.

    Do the Mohammedans worship Jesus? Worship would be an inappropriate term for what I assume your asking. Perhaps you meant adore. However, in terms of worship, as Dulia, yes, they do. Now, before you leap down my throat, as Catholics we differentiate worship into 3 forms, and Mohammedans do revere Jesus as a great profit, just as as we, catholics, do for the Saints. However, we recognize Jesus deserves Latria, as the son of God, as God himself! Do the Mohammedans offer Latria to our Lord, Jesus Christ? Most certainly not! They themselves admit as much.

    However, do they offer adoration to God, the Father? Yes. Just as the Jews of the Old Testament adored God the Father without recognizing Jesus Christ, so too can the Mohammedans.

    I'll touch on this more in my next post, but thanks again for your visit, and feel free to leave your name next time! If you are going to make a habit of visiting to condemn me, I would love to attach a name so our discourse could seem more personal.

    God Bless

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  7. Do you worship the same god that is worshiped in the synagogue by the Talmudic Jews?

    Do you worship the same god as that is worshipped in mosques around the world by the Mohammedans?

    Yes or no?

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  8. Unfortunately Pat, I can't say simply yes or no, for the simple reason it's not a simple yes or no question.

    I could ask you, hypothetically, do you worship God as he was in the old testament? If you said no, than you would be denying the immutability of God, and would be somewhere along the lines of the Mormons in believing the God of the old testament was a different God than of the new testament . If you said yes, you would fall under the same category as the Jews and the Mohammedans, who also worship the God of the old testament.

    So, in that sense, I would worship the same God as the Jews and Mohammedans. But to go a step further, my understanding is also more complete than the Jews or the Mohammedans, because God has brought me to the understanding of Jesus Christ, his only son and our savior. Hence why, when Catholics pray to God the Father, they ask 'in the name of Jesus Christ, our Lord.'

    The Trinity is a mystery, and as such, we can not understand how God can be one, yet three. When we offer prayers to the Holy Spirit, asking for guidance, are we heretical? Indeed no! See an example below.

    "Come Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of your faithful and kindle in them the fire of your love. Send forth your Spirit and they shall be created. And You shall renew the face of the earth."

    In much the same way, when the Jews and Mohammedans pray to God the Father, they are not heretical. They would be heretical for denying the triune nature of God, for Denying the Holy Spirit and Jesus, but not for their prayers to God the Father.

    I guess, to simplify, I would worship the same God the Father as the Jews, but I would also give glory to God by recognizing the Trinity.

    Now, is there worship accepted? I do not know. All information points to it not being accepted, but I do not believe the church has dogmatically declared such.

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  9. Thank you. That's all I was looking for. I can now mark you down as an apostate.

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  10. Any particular reason why?

    If you can show error in my reasoning, I'd be more than happy to see it, and amend my ways to the truth.

    If not, I can only assume you have a 'hardened heart', and as such, I can do nothing but pray for your understanding.

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  11. Chris, you don't worship 'God as He was' before or after or whatever. God does not change. He may change how he interacts with us, but God Himself does not change. I worship God as He has ordained I worship Him.

    "Do you worship the same god that is worshiped in the synagogue by the Talmudic Jews?"

    NO!

    "Do you worship the same god as that is worshiped in mosques around the world by the Mohammedans?"

    NO!

    Jesus Christ is GOD and man! Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity, the one true God!

    Everyone on this page is correct, you are an apostate, Chris. It's so sad.

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  12. Welcome Back Dave.

    Your very right in saying God does not change. For, the Gospel of St. John clearly says...

    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

    We know the Word as Jesus Christ. He is the Word become flesh.

    If the Word always has been with and always was God, since the creation of the world in Genesis, we can see clearly worship of God is possible without knowledge of Jesus Christ.

    Take Nehemiah 8:6 for example.

    'And Esdras blessed the Lord the great God: and all the people answered, Amen, amen: lifting up their hands: and they bowed down, and adored God with their faces to the ground.'

    These men knew nothing of Jesus Christ. Yet they offered their worship to God. How is this possible if they did not know Jesus Christ?

    Not only that, from the mouth of our Lord himself..

    John 4, 21-22 says...

    'Jesus saith to her: Woman, believe me, that the hour cometh, when you shall neither on this mountain, not in Jerusalem, adore the Father. You adore that which you know not: we adore that which we know; for salvation is of the Jews.'

    Jesus says here that the Samaritan will no longer adore the Father on the mountain or Jerusalem. How can she adore the Father without knowing the Son?

    Not only that, she adores what she does not know. Just as the Mohammedans adore God, though they may not know his fullness, just as the Samaritan woman did not his fullness.


    No place in the bible does it say the Jews stopped worshiping God. Where in church Tradition does it teach the Jews stopped worshiping God? I know of no place. If you can show me one, we could perhaps settle this whole debate!(Of course, it might not, as I have shown you a Pope who also admitted to worshiping the same God as the Mohammedans, and it has done little to change your mind.)

    What you believe is scripturally and traditionally inaccurate, on the premise of simple logic. Again, if you can show my error, please do. But if I do not err, why do you curse me?

    John 18:23

    "If I have spoken evil, give testimony of the evil; but if well, why strikest thou me?"

    God Bless,

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  13. EWTN uses the word LIBERTY....

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  14. Not the version I looked at. Is there a different link?

    http://www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/v2relfre.htm

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